Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 01 Sep 2015 09:23 #41334

  • Problem_Child
  • Offline
  • Catch me if you can!
  • I want to ride again tomorrow
  • Posts: 1300
  • Thank you received: 221
If it is benign why all the bother?
AKA Cliff Hanger
Last Edit: 01 Sep 2015 09:24 by Problem_Child.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 01 Sep 2015 09:51 #41336

  • B2R
  • Offline
  • Stunt Rider
  • Life starts on a long distance ride
  • Posts: 618
  • Thank you received: 231
Johan, is it possible to post a copy of the Clubs Africa agreement and our responsibilities towards that so that we could have a full picture to make a decision.?

Many thanks
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 02 Sep 2015 13:34 #41348

  • Johan
  • Offline
  • Catch me if you can!
  • Posts: 1284
  • Thank you received: 233
Richard H wrote:
. The Club already has a written contract with BMW AG allowing use of BMW AG’s trademarks, namely the Roundel and the letters “BMW”, within the conditions and terms as required by BMW AG. .[/b]

Richard
This written contract you mention
- Is it a individual and separate contract between our club and BMW AG? If so, where/when can we obtain a copy?
- Is it due/via to our membership with Clubs Africa?

Would love to know ASAP (before the meeting on Friday
I live to please, but don't always succeed
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 02 Sep 2015 23:32 #41350

  • Richard H
  • Offline
  • Catch me if you can!
  • Posts: 1089
  • Thank you received: 217
The Club's official records would contain a copy of the signed agreement.
Each club that wishes to use the letters "BMW" or" The Roundel" in its regalia was required to sign a standard agreement with BMW AG for the controlled used of their trademarks. Part of the contract involved alignment of a Club name to "BMW Motorcycle Club.XXX." etc. The matter was the subject of a special General Meeting in the past during the days of the rinderpes (when I was once Chairman).

BMW Clubs Africa is a regional umbrella body that comes into being when the constituent clubs sit in committee on regional matters. It also agreed to the very same conditions as the individual Clubs.

I don't intend to debate this further, but I do note that our very supportive BMW dealer trades under the name
"Bavarian Motorcycles" - not "Bavarian Motorrad" (or "Bayerisches Motorraeder") as the suggested 'alignment' would imply.
I simply see no necessity to simply change for changes sake.
.
Last Edit: 02 Sep 2015 23:34 by Richard H.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 03 Sep 2015 06:46 #41352

  • JohanGT
  • Offline
  • Pillion-friendly
  • Posts: 176
  • Thank you received: 49
Thanks Richard, it is great to have someone like you and Dani available to our club who has a long - standing history with the club. We sometimes underestimate the value of experience and mistake it for tradition. There is always place to improve but we should never loose sight of the people and the experiences of people that went before us.

I appreciate your input and value your opinions.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 03 Sep 2015 08:37 #41357

  • Problem_Child
  • Offline
  • Catch me if you can!
  • I want to ride again tomorrow
  • Posts: 1300
  • Thank you received: 221
Question:

If the name is changed, will the contract that Richard speaks of need an addendum, or will the contract need to be re signed or re negotiated?

I am assuming that the club is a legal entity and the name change may change the identity of this entity?
AKA Cliff Hanger
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 03 Sep 2015 09:08 #41358

  • GSLady
  • Offline
  • Catch me if you can!
  • Posts: 1270
  • Thank you received: 316
Hi All

This matter may have quite understandably, sentiment to some loyal members and their opinion is respected.
It is true that BMW Clubs Africa signed a contract with BMW AG.

If the name change, the Club's constitution has to be amended as well as the logo. That's it.
Clubs Africa will do the logo change on each Club's behalf.

Six of the 11 official BMW Motorcycle Clubs in Africa already had their Special General Meetings.
They have all agreed to the name change.
They are:
The two oldest Clubs in SA (±30years in existence): BMW Motorrad Club Central and BMW Motorrad Cape,
BMW Motorrad Club Namibia (I guess this was a no brainer!),
BMW Motorrad Club Lowveld,
BMW Motorrad Club Inland
and BMW Motorrad Club Border

David de Bruyn, proud member of BMW Motorcycle Club Pretoria and President of BMW Clubs International was asked to elaborate on other questions.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 03 Sep 2015 11:18 #41364

  • DavidDeB
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 4
  • Thank you received: 1
I normally prefer to stay mute on these topics – as I love seeing the democratic process in play. In this case I was asked to help with clarification on some of the issues raised.

And Richard and I have come a long way together – and I have respect for his views – and even more so for his passion.

Let me start with a positioning statement .

BMW recognise BMW Club Members as Ambassadors of the brand – and treat us as such.

A very good example is the relationship with Roger Smith and his team is such an excellent example of this. Another is the one with BMW Motorrad South Africa.

In fact – our relationship with them is used internationally as an example on how this can/should be done – i.e. organizing the biggest GS event in the world – where most of the participants are club members – and Clubs take an active role in organising it.

Allow me to pick up on a few phrases from the discussion above.

Start of this topic read “a proposal, seemingly coming from BMW Clubs Africa”
Just to start and to clear this up completely – this topic was initiated in the BMW Clubs Africa meeting held on 23rd May 2015 = and the first steps was to ask all the committees for their input.

Once all committees have agreed under the condition that it is approved by their members, it was asked that the committees arrange SGM’s for the change – to which all agreed to as well.

The BMW Clubs are not part of BMW’s corporate structure.
100% correct – actually Richard is the one that told me about this first. And it is written into most clubs’ constitutions as such. In fact, it is interesting that most of those also states that it has a “hands-off” relationship with BMW Clubs Africa. Pretoria‘s is silent on this topic except tasking the Chairperson with maintaining relationships, and referring Clubs Africa for conflict resolution.

However, there is no denying that our relationship with BMW and the BMW dealers is essential to the clubs.

The Club already has a written contract with BMW AG allowing use of BMW AG’s trademarks
The contract is between BMW Clubs Africa and BMW AG. It is for the use of the BMW trademarks within in the BMW Clubs world. Essentially it states that we have to use the word “Club” with “BMW” to clearly indicate that we are a BMW Club.

Pretoria as a paid-up member of BMW Clubs Africa then has the right to use the trademarks within these parameters. I’ll gladly share it – 90% of it is legalise and very complicated.

Clearly, a massive marketing opportunity is being pursued in this initiative.
100% correct - for the Clubs it is a massive marketing opportunity to leverage the relationship with BMW Motorrad and their massive marketing engine.

I, for one, have an inherent distrust of corporate business strategies.

I understand – and respect your view.

I can only comment on my own personal experience: in all my dealings with BMW AG, BMW SA and the other affiliates around the problem – I have never run into an issue with this.

I truly hope that members will understand that there is no hidden agenda here – but being done with the best intentions. And as per Dani – quite a few of the other clubs’ members have agreed to this.

Finally – my vote has to be YES.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 03 Sep 2015 11:42 #41367

  • B2R
  • Offline
  • Stunt Rider
  • Life starts on a long distance ride
  • Posts: 618
  • Thank you received: 231
[quote="DavidDeB" post=41364
Clearly, a massive marketing opportunity is being pursued in this initiative.
100% correct - for the Clubs it is a massive marketing opportunity to leverage the relationship with BMW Motorrad and their massive marketing engine.


David,
Thank you for your rerply.
We respect your input and as representative of BMW clubs international and BMW clubs African and our club.

However, This not a massive Marketing opportunity for the BMW Pretoria Motorcycle Club, but a massive Marketing opportunity for BMM Motorad SA. I think that is what Richard meant.

The members of the club have roughly bought 600 bikes from BMW Motorad per year with an average of about R 150K. That is an investment by the members of the club of around R 90 million per year going one way. We received somewhere between R 10 000 and R 15 000 from BMW Clubs Africa and BMW Motorad in return. I wonder how you can make the argument that it is an opportunity for us.

Could you please inform the members of the club the details of what you refer to. That will help us in reaching a proper decision. If we sign up to this please also tell us what Clubs Africa expects from us and can make us do under this agreement you refer to.
Last Edit: 03 Sep 2015 11:45 by B2R.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Special General Meeting - Proposed Name Change 03 Sep 2015 12:18 #41368

  • DavidDeB
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 4
  • Thank you received: 1
I'll gladly clarify – so please allow me to expand.

Not sure if you aware - but statics shows that only 10% of owners are club members – to me this translates that BMW has a 90% market that Clubs don’t have access to. And that is why it is huge opportunity for BMW Clubs Africa - and all the Clubs.

I am sorry, the point I was trying to make is that this is also an opportunity for Clubs and not just for BMW.

I’ll use one example which is very much still under negotiation: BMW Motorrad Days 2015 – where BMW expects between 2000 and 5000 attendees and open to all brands.

Under discussion is the opportunity to promote and market the Clubs there. The plan is to have "exhibitor space" - where all the clubs will receive an individual counter to promote themselves. The expectation is that the clubs will receive this gratis - while other exhibitors will be paying for this space.

And before anybody asks: This is not linked to a condition that all clubs change their names.

Future opportunities to be explored – any bright ideas will be highly appreciated.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: JohanGT